We or all of us can
listen very carefully to it.
And yes, also from the New Zealand came
the hint that all of us could
be writing some kind of haikus
to every image that we are really forced
to be very poetic but
short to our pictures.
So that's from my side maybe and
Catherine, Max, Daniel, some
one of you would like to go on
or to complement what I have said.
Okay, I can go on.
So it's just very short. I started a
recording. I mentioned it in the chat.
I will only use that
recording for making the protocol.
It will not be distributed in any way.
Is that okay for you?
Okay, thanks. Sorry, Catherine.
No, no, no problem.
Just maybe also very nice
Suzanne that you could join too.
And what I just want to say, what was
interested is with this
session of this morning
and the one that will come later, we
listened to every workshop complete.
And after every listening of the workshop
compiled, we exchanged comment.
We talked about it and
gathered some information.
And now we focused, you saw five minutes
of the last workshop where
some of you were participating.
And we started to there, we started in
fact to develop ideas.
What could happen later, for example,
because now if you see
every three workshop,
we start to make connection.
For example, in this workshop, he made an
image with Legos and the sound of Lego.
And in the first workshop where someone
from Greece had the sound of Deans.
And suddenly there is an echo going from
one work to the other.
And there someone,
Deedre said something nice.
She said, in fact, we are sound can be
like an oral hyperlink.
Because now we go from, we start to make
connections in listening.
Also, what I notice now in the listening,
it's really important to
install oneself in the listening.
So now it was a little
extract of the third workshop.
And it was, it's beautiful
just to settle in and listen.
So we started also to
talk about listening.
Are we listening or are
we making our brain listen?
So how do we listen or so?
That was an interesting comment.
And I think that would be from my side
now, where we were
wondering how could we go on?
Could we work with the
material that is here?
Do this oral hyperlink?
Or is it curating?
For example, we have very interesting
works from all three
workshops with water flowing from a
household.
But the image are different.
And the sound are
also slightly different.
But immediately I know,
oh, it's in my kitchen.
It's in the kitchen sink.
So these are questions that are now a
little bit in the room.
That is from my side.
I don't know, Daniel or Max?
Maybe I can.
Yeah, I see from my side, I see two
speaking about the next steps.
I see two, it's very broad now, two broad
areas that come up to me or
keep coming up in my mind.
One is to get a grip on what happens,
like deepening a bit more,
understanding more what's
going on.
And that relates to these discoveries
like oral hyperlinks or
relationships across image
and sound and so on.
And what Andrea mentioned.
So for instance, this could be achieved
through a series of
recombination remixes of what is
already there.
And just taking that material and
reworking it a few times.
And other things could be more the
expanding notion of, for
instance, taking the level of
text or taking the level of the picture.
Maybe even the sounds and revisiting or
rewriting or taking a
different format like the haiku
expanding on this notion that could be
also dimension to work with what we have.
I see also something like Max also
mentioned earlier already.
Maybe this could actually, it could
result in working groups
as well, depending on the
inclination and the personal interests.
There could be a grounded theory work
group, so to say, just
kind of coding through that
material and trying to find
patterns and make them visible.
So this is kind of one area, I think,
that I see where we
could decide on what topics
we could focus on and if there may be
small group teams forming around them.
Or if you just focus on one or two larger
things and collaborate
all together, these are
various formats.
Another thing that I would like just to
mention and I think we
need to discuss is how can we
decentralize and distribute the
responsibility or this idea
among us and among the partners,
for instance, by other workshop proposals
or activity proposals
that coming from others,
from the partners that reinterpret the
whole theme maybe and like
this generate other epicenters
for the project.
These are just a few thoughts that went
through my mind when I listened.
I have not a lot to add that I think what
was clear this
morning is that the issue of
text literature is an issue, the issue of
image is an important
issue, where I think we need
some workshops, perhaps we also need some
other partners, for
example, some writers class
could also be a
partner or that's one issue.
Then all kind of how could we mix or work
together because here
we have also to make
a differentiation short term, that means
over summer or over winter
depending on the hemisphere.
Then midterm, that means the next, let's
say nine months in Europe,
the autumn semester and the
beginning of the spring semester and the
longer term, let's call
the research project or the
bigger educational exchange project.
I think literature, images, workshops are
something for me in the midterm,
finding things which we could work
together over summer or
winter with the different regions,
that's an issue.
And then it's also for me an issue on the
midterm, this morning
we had, for example,
words like human, non-human, our relation
to nature, we had
presentation, representation,
for sure we always have this peripheries,
a center periphery,
which has a lot to do with
situated knowledge on one hand,
decolonizations on the other hand, and
what I would like to do,
that would be also a possibility for all
to share, is that we do in
winter online lecture series
where we share knowledge, existing
knowledge, by the different partners but
also by invited guests,
to share what I've also realized for sure
is we have different
knowledge depending on our discipline
but also depending on our region.
I get all the book tips from Australia
than from Canada, both
are very interesting,
but we have different cultures and that
would be for me, I'm really
keen for our lecture series,
it costs us not a lot because we are
anyway partners so we could
make lectures and we could
invite in our curriculum some people and
as you may know we are
searching for some seed moneys
for the upcoming months to finance such
little things also if it's necessary.
That's from my point,
for my position for the moment. Maybe I
can add something, we
had also the questions and
we are also questioning you about the
right, to whom belongs
this, how do we share,
because everyone gives something in and
just for the moment we said you can
download it for your
own but everyone has on his image and
sound the right and
before we have discussed it,
please don't take it or give it out, so
we have to discuss is it
open source or how do we deal
with the thing we have now created
together that was
also an important issue.
In the chat room you'll find the
formulation which I will send you with the link to the
video later today which is just a note
that means please use
all these sounds and images
only within peripheries for the moment
and for sure we have
to discuss that issue
about copyright protection, about who is
allowed to use in what purpose
and I think that will be a workshop
itself because copyright
questions in these days
are important as ever but more
complicated than ever. Shall
we listen to the round quickly
or actually you'll hear from you guys,
how do you see these points, what would be your
maybe you have already for yourself
developed a perspective
on this project and have
own wishes and desires on how you would
like to proceed and work.
Who wants to start?
Well, I think it's very interesting how
all these individual sounds and images
kind of give a deeper
understanding maybe of different parts of
the world and cultures
and although they are very
individual and or individual choices they
have this kind of
documentary sense to it and I find
this very interesting regarding other
cultures and other people because it
gives me maybe like I said
a deeper understanding of where they
live, what they do in their daily
routines but as for my
work here I would or just for me I would
find it much more
interesting to take these different
kinds of media. We have image, we have
sound and we have text now
which could also be a very
poetic part and I think it would be much
more interesting if they don't
necessarily correspond
so if there would be some kind of
distortion or difference
between those instances so that
the dialogue that forms itself inside
that dynamics creates something new.
Or in other words if the text, the images
and the sounds don't
necessarily correspond
it may be very interesting what happens
in the mind of the
viewing or listening person.
What do you mean
exactly with corresponds?
Well for example I see a bird in the
image and I read bird sounds as a
subtitle and I hear the
singing of a bird in the audio but now
what happens if the image
doesn't really show a bird,
maybe the image is an image of an indoors
room so now what happens if
I have the sound of a bird
but the image of a room where does the
bird come from so
something happens inside my mind,
history forms itself which hasn't been
there before so there's a whole space or
room that opens up for
stories that can develop in each
individual that is listening
or reading or watching those
images sounds and texts. Okay thank you I
think I have understand I
agree also it's an old thing
we always have to teach don't use the
same in different media
because that's boring it's more
interesting to add to make it was a very
also trick for the
beginning now to start very
pure in a way because as soon you start
with corresponding
things you make projections
more projections as with the situation
now and the idea was
really to start from the basic
but for sure and that's one dimension of
this project which is
called artistic research and
artistic production to go into what you
said so I fully agree. But I think it
also interesting and
great as you said if there is something
from the kitchen and you
react with bird so you would like
give an answer to another image and
that's something we had
in mind also with the pairs
before already and I think it's great to
it's like something has
started and you give an answer
but it's not the probably not the answer
we are expecting and so
it could be really tensions
or a new kind of work even with the same
photographs and sounds but
differently connected yes.
Hi Conda Drea sorry I want
just to call you. Thank you.
I just want to add something to also what
Barzil said and also
what Daniel said and how
to work with the material that we already
have was one aspect
that Daniel mentioned and
I was thinking during the the workshops I
mean I'm always fascinated
to see those pictures now
from you know I mean now we see pictures
from New Zealand from
Australia and for us it's like
whoa it's like traveling to a place I
mean it looks like holidays
for us and I always thought
I always thought how would it be if I
don't have the sound of
this image and I project my own
sounds what do I hear in this in this
picture and I thought one
way that that could be was
that we we could exchange also pictures
not that that one
person prepares the pair
and gives the sound the text the pic the
sound the image and the picture but we
exchange the picture
and somebody else creates the sound I
mean that could be could
be very interesting because
of course in our in our climate zone we
don't have the sounds of a
tropical forest but still
we have this image how we think it sounds
and maybe we go out and
collect sounds in our environment
that we try to to match there's an artist
maybe we can maybe some
of you know know Chris
Chris Watson and that is a very
interesting work he did he
did this with with paintings
you can listen to to look at it later but
he what he what he did
was he he took a painting
a classical landscape painting from the I
think 18th century and
he made the sound to it
and I really love this this this work
so that was just to add to both comments.
Catherine and then Joerg
No no I just want to say that Haiko and
Andrea wanted to say something
this project started also with
this how you call it preliminary no with
one purpose to put an archive to
construct an archive
with sounds pictures and texts and I feel
like we are not it's good
to discuss the second step
but we are still making up an archive so
I feel like there's not
enough sounds yet to go to a
second step we are we are still
collecting sounds for the
first step to build up an archive
and even if I hear that there are
feelings from other countries and other
continents and so it's
it will never be correct or like ideal
but it's still for me it's
too random now the sounds
to make conclusions like that because
there are not enough sounds
yet but there will never be
enough sounds but there's still too few
sounds to make
conclusions like that I think
so first I would like to have a bigger
archive and to have like a
not like an engine concerning engines I
would like to talk after like to have
a construction where it can be easy to
upload and put and archive sounds
so now we have just a folder and put it
in and we have pairs and
it's not very convenient to
compare or to to change insights so I
think one good idea would be
to make a good construction
to make a good construction for an
archive and then to make the
correlations between this stuff
we need some kind of an
engine like or we need this so
absolute no it can be in the direction of
putting engines and there was a that the
mention of hyperlink so another
possibility is the tax so
how we use tax and hyperlinks
and this is what I I have one kind of a
vision and and before
there was also to talk about
traveling and I feel like it would be
nice if I could go with my bicycle and
feeling sometimes on the waves and
feeling the water and then I
can have choice on which way
I want to go to the right something like
with beans and or
going to the left something
is hot I can have different keywords and
I can go on a journey and
continuously make a trip
using these sounds and if I get rid if I
get feeling like I'm
bored of this sound I can
turn around and going somewhere else so I
can make a continuous
journey so this kind of engine
could be a final or a next development of
this project it's it's
already maybe too fast to make
like a construction like this too too
quick maybe but I like to the
feeling to travel and to have
this to to be able to make decisions on
my course and relating to
these decisions I can go to a next
to another place to a next step to a next
feeling but for this I think
we have to have more sounds
than we just have now yeah fully support
this idea and the
interactive bicycle we could take that
take that from the ZKM and work go on
working so remembering the 90s
I fully agree with the archive I agree
with the engine which
makes interactive use and
collections possible I agree also with
the artistic dimension
but there is for me one
important point if we call this broad we
call this project peripheries
because we are we care about
the diversity and that we are all a
center and that we care
about projection and I have this
there is this quote by by Gertke von
Siedl, von Weis, you only
see what we already know
it's extremely tricky what happens if we
bring two different things together
that we we go back in a kind of a
regression to what we already know and
what you already know
is the past and to come to and there I
think it's important really to collect
and to ask ourselves always when we make
connections with this engine for example
what what have we done it was the last
yesterday when I was
editing the video that was always
because even just who in what is the
follow who comes after
whom how long is this pause
it's a fade out it's a cut that is it
more a little bit more compressed a
little bit less compressed
and that already makes a huge difference
of how we perceive and for me it's
important that we work on
this this perception of what happens if
you do something that means
responsibility of this archive
Patrick?
I think what is from the beginning on
that was maybe the idea
of the archive is certainly
one point but the idea was also the
connection and and the
connection that we have and the
relationship I think there it's it's like
listening you need time to
establish also a relationship
and I do believe that in this work we
have many directions where
to go for example the idea of
the archive the idea of the hashtags this
is things like Mark said we
we talk about it since a while
it's it's another dimension of the
project that is another
form maybe of organization
we learned from our colleagues from
Canada where we had very quickly a talk
with Susan and Philippe
Aubert we were talking of participants
and Philippe Aubert
said to us no participants
we talked we started talking about it and
he said it's collaborators
and and that is probably also the
character of the project so it is about
this way of how we are
getting in contact with each other that
means for example in
these three workshops I saw
I started to think I have a recording of
water that I that I
did and now I saw that
Susan did also recording with water with
rain and the idea and if we
start to make these correlations
and start to think oh this sound
interests me but maybe with
another image that is always
and I personally I think would be very
important it's always in
contact with the person also who
did it to start the dialogue because only
in this in the moment where
I would come to for example
to Susan and we start we start talking
about rain and maybe Susan will explain
me where it took place
exactly and I will tell her oh what
happened to me and in
these in between connections
happens also a lot of a creative process
so I think this project is is also very
strongly in starting to connect to each
other and starting to see how we come
into with a dialogue
together so that is something that can
happen in fact quite
quickly this is something that can
happen in the short term for example
Susan yes I'd love to talk about that
rain that you you did
pictures with you I'm like impatient to
start and and then maybe
after after that I don't know we
decide Susan and me okay let's try to do
together postcard and we go
on and try a new postcard so
this is the I think there are really
different ways of working
and what is good with this
conversation is what we have now that we
also protocol all these
different ways of working
these to-dos and then about seeing which
what is possible in the
short term what is possible
midterm what is possible longer term that
that is what I think the big
chance of this planning also
I would now be curious to hear from Susan
how you imagine this
collaboration from your
point of view what what
would be your idea about this
hello still very
early in the morning here
sorry I've just been thinking
I've been thinking that a text at this
point might be I'm trying
to think how that could work
the text of what we're discovering when
while we're listening
and where our interests are going like
earlier there was a lot of
different directions that
people were saying the sounds were going
in and that might also
be a cue for partnering up
how we're listening why we're listening
what we're tuning into what
are like the the quote from
Gertr what maybe the things that are
active in our in our work or
in our minds are being activated
while we're listening and that might help
to also think about
partnering because maybe we want to
not be so quickly directed but to say
well this is my approach this is
this is how I listen do you want to
listen with me you know but in two
different places with that
kind of perception you know it's also how
how we might be choosing to
perceive the environments we
listen to so I was wondering whether a
little bit of description of
listening how we're listening
how we're recording might be interesting
I think this is a link
between we have not too totally
different opinions but we have this thing
let's work with the
material and be careful with the
material because there is a lot of
projection and whatsoever and what you
said just using this
I think it's really a great word it's
about hey how do I
listen I show you how I listen
and this is perhaps the key to come
together let's say that is
if we really take the subject
the individual I as a person with my view
give you what I'm
listening what I'm what I have
photographed this personal statement this
is something what I would
touch me so much in this
project that we have in contrast them I
said this morning already in
contrast to the world maps of
soundscapes where we have a kind of
neutrality we have in these three
workshops so many opinions
and approaches to very personal very
intimate date in team well another wide
world image very personal
worlds and that has a kind of an empathic
approach and I think that
is really the key between the
archives and let's say the autistic work
because archive sounds like
oh that's boring that's a lot
of work and artistic sounds like oh
that's subjective that's has no
objectivity and there is the link for me
maybe I can do a little bit an overview
what we discuss because I think it's
going to be a little
like a way we could do and we have the
approach to experiment then
we have the approach to collect
and to assemble in an archive then we
have the aspect of
relationship dialogue to connect
and we have also
the at the end how to to analyze and it
can be analyzing collectives
so maybe this analyzing collectives
contains also a lot from the others but
it's all now the the
things I've listed on since I heard this
and I like it very much
because I think it has as many
aspects as persons but for the project
for me it has also all the
necessities I mean it's it's
really big now but I I think some of you
would like to to
experiment and others to think more
about the the strict structures how we
collect this and I agree
with Jörg I'm one of the slower
thinkers in sense of I would like to have
all participants more examples because
I think if every one of you has then seen
all the examples it will
give you new kicks to do more
if possible but that's a personal view
but of course the other things I
other the other aspects
have to be cared as well
I have a question
this is how I listen that was the word of
Susan it reminds me on the
text of Remi Czauk in his
images that's a side note this is how I
listen Rory and also Haika
Andrea you worked with special
microphones because you try to listen in
another way and I'm a
little bit curious about
yeah what's behind your idea could you
explain it a little bit
why you use that kind of
microphone you explained it already
yesterday but perhaps it also
helps us in this question how
it can be to proceed
yeah you hear me okay excellent yeah I
for me at least the reason that I found
the use of something like the
electromagnetic microphone so compelling
is because it allows us
to sort of a window into the sort of
function of these objects
which are sort of ostensibly
not representing sort of as much labor as
they might be undertaking
so a computer or a phone
sort of sits you know quite silent quite
you know unmoving as an
object but within it it's
you know performing you know millions and
millions of calculations per
second and I liked having that
an ability to sort of get this sense of
this labor that the object is
performing that's usually so
hidden from us and so to be able to to
listen to something which is
so you know by design quite
hidden is something that I it's just very
it's fascinating to me that and also the
like you were sort of saying the acoustic
ecology and the this within the
soundscape you know we've
so polluted all of the you know airwaves
in these in whatever you know
frequency or spectrum doesn't
you know affect us directly you know as
far as where our the limit
of our hearing goes as soon
as we can't hear it we sort of pretend
that it doesn't exist and we
can pollute that with whatever
sort of information or material we want
and so to be able to sort
of get this sense of you know
how how sort of this this din of humanity
at the upper end of the
frequency I find really
interesting as well that was that was
sort of the main things for me at least
um yeah I I would agree with Rory on on
that point that for us
it's also very interesting to
to listen to those hidden let's say
hidden structures that that surround us
so I guess that's that's one reason why
we also we're interested in getting this
electromagnetic microphone but um also on
an on another level well I
think what well both of us
what is interesting for us is once you
realize that you're always
dependent on the microphone
you choose so um I mean if you start with
a with a regular microphone
and you start experimenting with two
different kinds of of condenser
microphone you you will
always get different results and I think
once you you realize that
you really dependent on the on
this equipment that this changes the the
way you listen and what you
listen it can change it can
influence this very much then it opens
this this door to to really experiment
with you know all those
different kinds of piezotl hydrophones
electromagnetic things yeah I think that
that was one reason for us to
I think that's a very important point
because and not not to use
here the media to necessarily
necessarily stored but also to not fall
into the documentary trap
that we take into account maybe
more explicitly than so far we have kind
of overplayed it always
and um but the role of the
recording medium but also the periphery
of hearing which comes into
play here um that's we say we
we we document this that that's also the
question maybe the
notion of sound as as a purely
auditive in a sense of airwave eardrum
transmission process and extend it to the
periphery of these sensory things and and
I think it's really important that this
the role of the medium of the microphone
of the transmission and
so on is considered somehow
um yes so yeah I agree with with this I
wonder how that that maybe
the challenge let's say like
this here is that it doesn't fringe out
too much in into the
experiment with the aesthetics of this
media themselves but it stays connected
to this yeah everyday
grounded experience and the cultural
questions but I'm I'm pretty sure we can
handle this I mean the
that's not not something I really
worry about but yeah I think it's a good
point but I think like you
said um the lack of material
is something to be considered not
everyone has the ability um
to use such special microphones
and it's still a very technical thing
also to record um those
sounds so it's it's on
maybe even a scientific site the the
approach of recording um sounds that
maybe otherwise cannot be here or hurt by
human ears um but we all
have in common I guess is
the way we perceive sounds which is a
very individual thing so
I think um regardless of
the possibilities we have to record
sounds and with which material it would
be very interesting to
to try out this kind of translation from
what I perceive and um what
what can I produce from that
so it's it's like showing the world the
way I perceive the world
by collecting those sounds
yeah regardless of technical equipment
and it forces you to listen behind that
was a seemingly
manifest the wind noise of the
microphone the distortion of the gain and
so on and and the question
like what is the intention
what is the communicative act behind it
it's an opportunity
actually so to go away from this
traditional sound high fidelity um claim
that you need all this
high-end gear and proper technique
and everything and open it up to everyone
I mean that's an
important aspect I think of the
project anyway it is this um
inclusiveness and and it's not an expert
sound expert project it's
in that sense I think that's important
aspect for me this participatory approach
to working with sound
which of course doesn't exclude using
those kinds of microphones at
all but it just gives it maybe
a more personal perspective to say okay
it's it's maybe not even that
important it's important what
what do I as an individual hear or see or
yeah remember from from a
scene for a certain thing
and how can I translate that
to something I can communicate
yeah for me it's really um
this personal statements that was
not surprising but that was a gift of
these three workshops that all of you
all collaborators have given something
personal and there is a huge difference
for example I use a lot so what's the
name of uh uh
freesound.org the the huge uh
field recording archive of him from
Barcelona okay that's great I have
millions hundred thousands of sounds but
they are just sounds from
geographic that point at that
time and that's interesting but here it's
an archive it's a sentimental archive
and the sentimental is perhaps a key to
understand what is our
center and we are all centers
a little bit pathetic but you know
already that and
sometimes a little bit pathetic
maybe and I can add something for me and
this morning when I got
up usually as you Susan and
completely in the morning not so fresh
but um I went up and
thought oh what are the other
participants in the moment uh what would
you hear and how is
the weather down there
and then it was said oh it's rainy and
cold and we are scow cold and
I think in account 14 degrees
and for us 14 degrees in winter it's not
so I thought like I got
your ears and I got your eyes
of course not the same way I know
everyone is different but
for me it's really this um
this gift to go uh to to enlarge my my
everyday's behavior in looking and
listening different because of what I've
seen from you and this is really um
something also we can maybe think about
it or or how to go on with this uh
with this variety of views and and as it
is uh different as Max said from this free sound project
there are really I have the sounds and I
do my own images but as you
all have given me the images
um it's so much more that I have to go
like a step back and for
me is first I can't use it
I can't think about it in the moment but I can't use it because it's like this gift is there and I
have first to to look it three more times
and to listen it
three more times and then
probably later on I can say what to do
with but it's changed the staff it
definitely very strong my
perception which I also see as uh our goal maybe to
share our individual um
yeah our individual histories or our individual um perceptions of the world in a kind of way and
yeah our individual histories or our
individual perceptions of
the world in a kind of way
um
it it also relates then to the to the
question when we ask how we
listen and how we how we make
decisions I mean either in an artistic
approach or in a scientific
approach but this very personal
question that can then can that can lead
to a dialogue just talk about how do you
what kind of decisions do
you make during your work
I think this is yeah for me it's always a
very interesting question
in an yes in an artistic
but also in all kind of works how you
make yeah how do you
decide what do you record
yeah there is in the post-colonial
discourse there is one quote
in a way uh and this quote is
it could also be quite different it could
happen also totally
different that is about okay why we
are here now in the history before all
the mistakes and all the
things happening and just
to think about what would be if it there
was taken another decision
sometimes and what decision we
are taking today and that's I think is
really a core point this
decision even it's very small
this decision of okay how do I listen how
could I make this
transparent and show that to you
before kind of microphone could
microphone could be a
technical question could be
question where I have to go whatsoever
yes and I think the the corona sorry the
corona in the beginning
uh was also a condition
that made this so special because a lot
of things had been taken inside and
for example people in
Greece couldn't go outside
Susan
um I was thinking um with Rory and Daniel
about recording and also the
impossibility of recording
um like my experiments of putting my ears
to birch trees that's
like an extraordinary sound
that I can't I was so excited to discover
these sounds inside the um
reverberating body of the
birch tree that sounded like rushing
water but I know that even if I had a
sound engineer expert
with me that I would be disappointed in
the recording of the
sound so it was something
about making a suction with my ear to the
birch tree which made the
experience extraordinary
but even if I had the best recording of
what a microphone could do
I think it would not meet my
physical expectation of what that
experience was so it's also for me at the
beginning of this process
how to negotiate these what perception is
and what the um the results
through a recording device
is that's I think this point about
listening and listening awareness that's
really important and
if we could find a way also maybe to to
ritualize this part which is
so easily forgotten we focus
so much on the output and not so much
about this this confrontation
itself it's so deep in at least
our western material production culture
in in media in general it's
output that counts nobody cares
what you did on the way there except for
some um aestheticized
making of films and so on that
I'm always telling but but it's really um
I wonder how we could um
capture or yeah let this
flow into the thing um because this kind
of self-documentation
self-reflection is also always
a bit an obstacle it's a hindrance it can
be perceived felt as one
if you're in the flow of
doing stuff you're not reflecting you're
just doing and that there's
a conflict there that that
is can maybe be addressed by
collaboration again by in a collaborative
situation you have two
different persons that can switch an
observer and the maker switch
roles just brainstorming about
these aspects yeah I remember when the
mobile came out and some
some good cameras came out
with the mobile I remember Suzanne it
reminds me the excitement of
putting my mobile in places
where I couldn't go with a normal camera
and and filming behind a
radiator or or all these things
that was so great because just this
action of of of having the
feeling I'm I'm out of my body
and I'm somewhere in another in another
place and and this is
something that uh when when you
talked about uh you listening to to the
tree is like I have the
feeling in those moments it's
been getting out of maybe then my center
and coming in
interaction with another center
yeah I think action perhaps you have to
think also more about the
performativity of field recording
that we are it's a moment in our life and
we tape it and I think it's
it's it's different to video
and it's definitely different to photo
because for me some perhaps
I'm sound coming from sound
it has a magic the recording it's a
moment of time which will
never come it's an action recording
isn't doing a recording is is another
action it's also from the
body when I'm having a microphone
and a total different thing than a photo
because how to hold it
it's okay a little bit different oh now I
have it that's the moment
and I have one record here
which just reminds me because that's um
it's a quite famous thing
I think it's by the artist
the video artist Michael Snow and he made
the records the last LP
he made a record of unique
last recordings that mean a person talks
and then an explosion and the
person is dead or a language
which is away because the last person
died and he collected all these last
recordings of things or
an animal who is extinct and it's in a
way it's so strange
this this document and
I never I never listened to that record I
have listened it once or
twice but it's important
document for me as a as a document of how
we think how we behave with sound and
what does it mean for us
so lots of path open
but I think that this was the idea I mean
this is the first time
we have this conversation
together with different uh uh persons who
participated in the
workshop and this is what
we we would like really to we had the
idea of the postcard that is what held us held us in the
beginning with the postcards um and that
is still that is still
something I I could imagine
could go on it is a small work with the
postcard but I think this
dimension in the postcard of
image sound text and collaboration that
would be also
interesting I think that would be
I I would wish very much uh again like we
we we went in a very free
and open way that we would
maybe try those who want that we would
try this just to come
into contact with each other
to through the work now we we are coming
into contact with each
other we are exchanging in a
discussion but I I could imagine in the
moment we start together
working on on the image and the
sound and the words it it brings us to
another place and as a postcard is
somehow some one-way
connection um I I think this is why I
love Heiko's idea so much of um making
the sounds to an image
that has been made by someone else or
vice versa so um the
product could still be a postcard
but it has been a two-way conversation
that led to that product um
which I think is beautiful
and um now the connections we have around
the globe not only inside Switzerland
makes it even more meaningful I guess
yeah it's exactly one thing
we thought about doing now in
the next two or three months I think the
word collaboration is of
high importance when I take
a sound of you and do something with that
make a combination with
another image or another sound
I have done that's one thing the other
thing is I talk with you
about your sound and about my
idea how to work with that sound or how
of the combination then
something more for me more
interesting happens because then we are
in this reflection part Daniel Hoog
mentioned before one
thing is the flow and within the flow
partly we have to work we
don't have to reflect because
otherwise we do nothing at all it's not
nothing we reflect but
there is no other in a way
and I think a collaboration between two
three persons on new
sounds on new combinations
has both the cast the potential of a flow
because it's great to
do something together
at the same time it has these reflections
because we do misunderstandings that's in
all intercultural work or in all work
misunderstanding is the greatest thing
in a way if we talk about and use that
what I like with the idea of postcard and
sound is that it's
constrict to visual and
oral and it's without words because now
we are having three
elements sound vision and words
and I feel like the visual and the sounds
are more democratic than the words
because some of us are
native English speaker some of them
hardly don't speak English and putting it
in words gives a shift
of experience I don't think that there's
no shift at all with the
world so with the pictures but
it's more democratic because everybody
can have an individual
approach to the sound or to the
picture but if I'm limited to one of the
languages in the world to
English then there is a shift
an undemocratic approach so I would
prefer only two elements without words
except if everyone speaks their own
language I mean that
that would be possible too
why not having a postcard in Japanese or
whatever language that person speaks
but for now in this project there's one
common language which
is English so this is
this is one point I
wanted to mention tonight
or sorry I think it's a very interesting
question with the language
because it's our common language
but we all have I see when I see just the
screen now we have already different
different backgrounds with the language
and I have to say I think also
I wouldn't mind when there is a part of
the language that stays in
the language of the person
I would say for me it is
even if I would not I would certainly not
understand Japanese but
I see another language
and that already opens something triggers
something in me this
openness I do believe that if we
get more and more used to maybe just look
at language even that
we don't understand them
or hear language that we don't understand
them something also there
happens in my listening and
reading and this is maybe something
personal that I think sometimes very
often what does it mean to
just listen to a language I don't
understand that at our institute we we
have some students that they
talk Spanish so sometimes we heard
presentations of them
that were done in Spanish
and many of us didn't understand it but
we understood something
else in looking at their
word that they commented with their
language so I would have let's say a
plitou aye for language
but a plitou aye for a sort of plural
diversity of language
and spoken language is also different in
written language so what you
said now is limited to spoke
of course there is also graphical
differences in different languages but
when you listen to the
language it's not Japanese of for example
then it's more different
because you can feel like the
feelings where they make a point and
where they're meandering and but if it's
written you you lose
this personal relation to the language I
think so spoken language is
maybe easier to communicate and
this goes again to the place where I said
before then it's then
it's a sound file again yeah
I have an anecdote sorry I have to tell
that anecdote it's
about my Japanese knowledge
my father always said when something was
finished and he go to something next
that means now dinner is ready okay let's
go he always said so let's go
and I understood so say saw I thought
it's French I knew that my
father lived a year in Japan
but I never connected so this guy with so
with Japanese and then I
was in a movie by Kurosawa
at Mifune the famous actor of Kurosawa
was so let's go and that was reading
and that was reading the subtitle and
that was the moment I
realized that it wasn't French
but that's just an anecdote for about
language and misunderstanding
I think it's important insight for me it
was great yesterday in the editing the
Japanese participants
because I had the feeling could be
totally projection as we
know I have had a feeling of
an insight of another approach to sound
and visual and I think this kind of
things we have to push
that we have another levels of
understanding and communication than just
our broken English we do
have as communication it's also with
Botswana there is we have
other difficulties partly
technical difficulties that's an issue
what is with partners with less bandwidth
and also a kind of periphery because they
are industrial designers
and sound is there in a kind
of knowledge periphery also or knowledge
of interest periphery
but they are interested in
sound what does that mean but in the
moment we have a little
bit both we had from from
Dineke and Fiona and more the idea that
they like to have words
beyond cards they would miss it if
we had examples they were empty and they
said for them it's
essential that the words are there
and we have the contrary that you York
said it's more to hear
and to look without words
and so we have to discuss it a little bit
because I think the words became a change
and in the beginning they were really the
tags Daniel gave us as a
duty to to fix the sounds
so we about around this we came to little
stories and also
describing images that are
already the same what they were showing
so we are in this
discussion and I think we have
probably to make examples and to try out
what what fits best and
what would be examples without
stories or do we all of us try to do some
kind of hike who's that
there would be also an
a big subject how to deal with language
in between sound and image
hike Philip
we are in the midst but perhaps we are
also at the end of a
discussion to make a short
pause Katrin has sent me a private
message let's make a short pause please I
agree fully with that
and I'm just asking is it okay to make a
short pause now for five or ten minutes
and then the idea of for my part would be
to go perhaps a little bit
in the structure of short
medium and long term and what are things
we could do and how that's
important how we could do that
together because if we talk about
collaborators we also have a
problem we have to collaborate
to make the project and that's sometimes
a little bit more difficult
than to do it in a very small
group as big as the group is is it okay
for 10 minutes yes okay
okay I will drop out oh sorry
and go home and another join maybe in 20
minutes okay so you start
without me okay let's make 10
minutes that's what's an xx 40 depending
on the on the time shift
see you in 10 minutes bye bye
you
you
you
you
you
you
you
you
you
you
you
the third workshop and we are we work
together as sound artists we do a lot of
um sound installations yeah that's
basically what we do
sound sound installations and
we know kathleen from another workshop
that we did on the hyper work
thank you very much maybe bazil
yeah hi everyone my name is bazil i'm a
graphic designer from
around bazell switzerland and i'm
just about to start
type of work this autumn
yes hello everybody very happy to be here
so i'm filo bar i'm mostly
into sound art and digital art
i'm currently professor at the university
of kabak aman aman aman
trial i'm a real so it's in
quebec canada uh early in the morning uh
originally i'm from acoustics and i've
been working latin um
sound uh 3d sound and also 3d sound
perception and things like that very
happy to be here thanks
thank you very much rory
hey um i'm rory i'm uh based in uh cambra
australia um i was uh i
just graduated from the
school of art at a new last year um and
yeah i'm a artist sort of
focusing on um new media and
technology um trained as a photographer
but definitely branching
out a little bit more into
systems um now yeah okay thank you very
much and now uh my susan
uh like filo bar i'm also teaching at
ucam in in montreal
quebec and i teach in drawing
um uh i think my relationship to sound is
through listening and
perception and observation
and although i've worked directly with
sound a long time ago um
i think at the moment i'm
more connected to drawing as a larger
practice of listening and connecting
things and perception
so i'm very interested to join you all uh
in this group thank you
susan and for your information
so filo bobber and susan you brought her
around i think six students
from monreal uh who were in
different functions uh who came and and
participated in the second workshop
okay and now azura
hi my name is azura um i actually was
born in australia and i
grew up in new zealand but i'm
a virgin in rasl switzerland now since
some years and i will
start hyper work in september
i do a lot of very creative projects and
i don't like to limit
myself to some kind of title so
that's all i will say thank you very much
for the presentation so i
uh give the mic back to mux
or danielle i don't know or entreja
and yes and how to proceed for the for
the new commerce uh just a little um
um resume um and so we were talking about uh
the different ways of
going on and there are um
different um ideas and um some of them
contain to do more postcard
to to more to do more archiving
and uh to deal with this archive then uh
other ideas were to experiment with
materials we already
have then the third one was about
relationship dialogues to connect in
between different partners
and another one um to analyze and how to
how do we listen and to
go more deeper uh in that
field and i think there are many
possibilities to go on but somehow uh we
have also to to discuss
what fits best and what is uh what could
be next um goals to
that are possible to reach
and i think we have now uh both uh uh
sides of the earth summer and winter
pauses and therefore um
maybe also uh philip uh what would you
like um or or how do
you think uh how to go on
furthermore or um do you still need or
probably you will also um be
um able then to have all the
all the examples we have uh done all
until now they will be
available from now on
i think yeah
well there has been a little visit
i think philip didn't hear yes i hear but i was not sure if she said my name
okay it's very hairy here yeah this is my
first run of coffee so i'm
not sure i've re-warned up
with that and i think i'm just kidding
but your list you may like do
more data collection or more
analysis or more on a focus on dialogue
seems like to be the the
fork as you said possible access
one of the question might be what's the you know i don't like to say that but the goal
what's the you know i don't like to say
that but the goal what's the
vision also i think it strongly
depends on that on my side just a very
because i'm not fully awake
the the the i would personally
explore a lot of analysis personally um
but this is a bias i've been exploring
recently things like uh automatic was
also analysis of sound so
it's just a reflex i don't
um it's just uh yeah it's my comfort zone
so i would not say it's the
best but this is one of the idea
but i think that the big difference would
be probably to focus
more on connections most of
the project i know personally are data
collection and sound map
but sometimes everybody's
isolated or you have lots of work and now
on the machine learning
apply to sound environment
recognition drone detection and even
submarine sound detection
so but this is just machine
listening so maybe a distinctive
character would be the the meeting and
the discussion somehow
but as i said i'm not
fully awake so i'm just
it's a perfect in the morning i'm
straight out for bed
that's an excellent tool set to our
analytic possibility but
for me it's a it's a challenge
because i'm involved on other projects on
sound environment and i'm
always thinking about what's
the distinction what's the the unique
taste if we can say what's the difference
yeah in regards to that i also have an
open question just for me
i don't know if it's too
early to ask but um i've been asking
myself um what's the
relation between the importance of
the process itself with the connections
and the dialogue between us
participants and what's the
importance of the outcome you could say
um or in other words what
happens to the people that
afterwards look at those pictures and
listen to the sounds i think
it's at least for me and an
important question um is it equally
important what happens to the
listeners afterwards as it is
important uh what we share i think it's
important to understand
the project in in all three
dimensions and in each dimension the
output in a way will be and
the process will be in a way
different we have the the dimension of
the educational that
mean our one of our question
is how do we collaborate internationally
worldwide with online
on the issue of acoustic
ecology there the process is the center
there is no output in a way
needed okay there is a report
and perhaps a show but the main part is
what we are doing now does
that mean something for us
do we learn something is that real an
exchange which is compared
to a residency for example
to travel with a lot of co2 is has some
advantages in and not only
disadvantages because for sure
this is a disadvantage so in that
dimension i think the process
is the core element then the
second dimension is about a cool uh
artistic research and
artistic production there for sure
it could be or will be more output driven
what are kind of okay first
what is the research what is
the production and then for sure there is
the question of
distribution and distribution could
be online could be exhibitions could be
whatsoever but there we
have it's partly output driven
and the third dimension that's the core
issue peripheries and so
at the social political
morality whatsoever dimension of what is
a periphery what is
the concept of periphery
what is the center and how do we work on
a change of the world
in the end of how we
collaborate and there we have both that
what we are doing is a kind of thinking
the world in another
way because the distance is one grid to
the next in a way and the distance is of
the world in another
way and there for sure is also some
output driven in the sense of
epistemological what
you know what do we learn and distribute
what we have learned and
that goes then back to the first
dimension the dimension of the
educational term what for sure there is
the process but for sure
if we found out good practices we have to
tell that orders that we
have to share that we have
found out something and so it really
depends on the dimension
and for sure on the artistic
middle dimension there is most
possibilities of experiments of own
projects of different projects
and in the dimension of let's say the
cultural dimension there
will be also a lot of learnings
that's why i mentioned the possibility of
a lecture series to get
inputs i did the first
dimension that we are already involved we
are doing the first
dimension we try to collaborate
actually i know it's a long it's a long
answer on a short question sorry for that
no but yeah i don't know there there's
maybe not a final answer to
that i was just wondering um
as for this educational part now we're uh
still a very small group of people
sharing that and i was wondering if there
would be a possibility to um
give this dimension a broader
make it a broader dimension maybe um so
that we don't have an
outcome which is passive i mean
of course you can in the end there could
be a website or a book
and people just look at it
but what if it would be possible for
people um outside that
small community we share now
that they could participate in something
so that it somehow is
um um i don't know and
something they could do or
they could share in the end um
i think susan wanted
to say something exactly
i was wondering whether a next step
before going on the wider
horizons would be to just choose
one two three people that we would like
to you know do a set up a
process however we determine it
to share how we're listening um share
some sound files just between
us in a one to one or one to
three or one to four smaller group and
then in the next meeting we
could present as a mini group
you know what happened in
that small sharing space
yeah exactly that's uh i think this one
if you talk about the
short term i think that's the
what would help us all most that we have
groups working together and we share
results and learnings
at next meetings perhaps uh we have short
medium long term what
is important for the
shorter medium that the cadre could
explain our offer of
workshops in autumn or autumn in the
northern hemisphere spring in the south
because the process we
could start now over summer
will lead to meetings in autumn yes okay
thank you um yes i think
what you said susan this next
step yes definitively try to find
connections and create
connections among each other this is
something that we thought could happen
from now on july august
september in these three months
so it's a bit uh um a way where we are
all active and and we connect then uh
persons with whom we
we could also exchange and see already
now if there are some ideas
then in october um we would
like at hyperbac to do again a workshop
is it a workshop like we did
to have days or if it is like
today different sessions in a day this we
we don't know yet but that
would be like the anchor point
after these three months for the whole
group and then we
have in november we have
land um a workshop that would be take
place in the week of the 16th of november
and there we could reserve the whole week
for it so from monday to
friday normally the workshops
at our institute go from tuesday to
friday but because of the
time shift we can also move a
little bit more freely but that is in
fact the um the time that
we thought this could be like
the end point of this pilot phase and the
beginning point of a longer term research
and then we would have starting from i
don't know if it would
be december or january
or february we would start also with
lectures and parallel start with the
longer term research
so let's say for the moment it would be
more little small pockets
of work then we would gather
again eventually we could see if we want
to do it earlier than
october then it would be uh
it would be then in uh maybe september
and uh then we would have
that sort of finalization
for the pilot phase we also have to tell
you that max andrea and i
don't know i think daniel you
are also there or we're going to meet uh
we're trying to meet persons who can
help us also see where we're going to get
funding for the research
for a longer term research so
we're going to try to find also
initialization of funding to go on with
the work but for the moment
let's say the workshop that will be in
november or what we are
doing this is our institute that
takes over for the moment but then
probably uh long term we
need to need a bit uh a bigger
funding so i think really that that is
the horizon that we have so
maybe for you bazil i understand
your question i think what is also
interesting is to see maybe
after what happens with these
pockets of work we have really different
themes and it could be
very well that for example you
at hyperberg maybe there is a workshop
that is addressed to another community
that can participate
to one aspect of the project so there is
the possibility to to
work with these kind of
satellites i do believe that we cannot as
a whole group we cannot
carry everything all the time
together but from another research
project with new zealand and camera we
made very good experience
that we had a common subject but that's
for example camera the
school of art and design
made it sorry it was in morayal sorry it
was in morayal in concordia university
uh they made a research in in their own
rhythm and that's also
fascinating for us because then
something also happens it happens in
another pace and then we come again
together and maybe at the
very end when we have our research
project if it's in two years that maybe
in the meantime we manage
to have some exchange really traveling
maybe i don't know but that
there is a sort of exchange
or in the end there is really possibility
of a bigger gathering
so it's like milestones
maxis that uh that that's a bit the broad
i tried to make the broad
image i have just um some
there are questions not answered perhaps
they help basically
asked about make it bigger
that's for sure we are searching all the
partners in all the
countries with other specialities
but there is to say collaborate we want
to do this in a
collaborative way and collaboration
needs trust that means we don't spread
around all over and we
have at the end a lot of
a lot of names a lot of institutions but
we are not able to
collaborate so this is also part of
the process how to find partners which
are fixed to us um then an answer to
phillip um what is the
goal i don't know that's a part of the
collaboration that
that's also something specific
that for sure i have an idea that's clear
but i don't know
exactly what uh is the chain
but the direction if the name peripheries
is set but how what are
steps in that direction that
could be a diversity and what katrin said
perhaps we are talking
about a kind of a research
program with different projects with a
kind of collaboration
some parts are decentralized
in europe we have the so-called course
networks course networks as
european research part where
all over europe there are research teams
and the only thing what they do together
they meet and talk about their research
and exchange and the
eu-pays for the collaboration
perhaps it's a little bit like this
that's also a question and um yeah that's
uh two questions you
you may you had and the answers which are
also perhaps a little
bit what you said katrin
give another some other inputs to that so
it's really and for me
on the again that we have
curriculum questions what could we do in
autumn or spring what what
we could do later together
how do we go on with the collaboration
but on the planning side
we also have questions of
how do we get to a common program to go
for money what katrin
mentioned before we are searching now
seed money initiating money to support
this process um sorry from
my side the most important
is to keep it on that we have
participants from every level from the
ones who have started to
have the first microphone in their hands
to the phds uh to the
experts for me it's uh the most
amazing thing to see that everyone is
able to do little beautiful art pieces
and therefore i i really
um um one of my goals is to go on with
this database and these
images and these sounds
furthermore because i i think uh that's
the thing uh that connects
us but out of these to do
research or to go on with um um like
patterns what what did we
find out uh is is uh is clear
and um i think it would be great also to
hear from other partners uh
during uh the next half year
uh what would you like would they like to
contribute or to take
out and what we didn't
mention yet but before twice we have also
to discuss um the
belongings the copyright the
copyleft uh whatsoever um so uh for me
it's it's important that
every uh participant can
can go in every group and uh it might be
very interesting to to listen to
theoretic some people they never did or
uh it's it's great to to
collect more sounds uh in in
different places so i think the the
really main thing is to
keep up this community somehow
uh if ever possible
with different approaches
yeah um exactly i think that's that's
great and just to shortly i
know this is far in the future
but just to come back to my question from
before i didn't necessarily
mean um uh it would be nice to
broaden uh our connections or this
community we share now it was more a
question of accessibility
because max once um in the beginning
showed us this website um with
the world map where you could
just click on on a certain area and then
you would hear the sounds
that were recorded right
in that place and i thought it was such a
a very very cool and
inspiring way to connect oneself to
a certain um point in the world and this
interaction is something
which is open to everyone
and not only people uh that kind of live
in our bubbles because
we we're only connected to
to a certain kind of people that we don't
have access and i think
the internet for example is
a great way to give access to such work
um for everyone so my
question was more about that but
um i know this will be a discussion um
further in the future yeah but there i
fully agree that's it
we we had this morning we had the
interactive bicycle york has
brought that in um yeah you
had you had the idea of the interactive
bicycle the archive
which we could use and could
drive around and um i think that's an
important task to make this
all we called it this morning
all hyperlink these all hyperlinks really
feasible and touchable and irritable
yeah it was just an illustration of how
we could use the archive
because archive making and
archive using are two totally different
steps first if we make one
and then we have to to see on
with what aims we are going to use it so
the design of the archive
is also decided by how we
are going to use it how easy is it to
access how easy is it to
find files which suits the needs
that's what's just an example and i
thought of an example which is fun
because if we have this
archive and we don't use it with fun then
it makes no sense for me so
the fun part should be always
a part of the way of
using what we are going to do
okay i think i think there is also
important question this fun
function this factor which
we found out this morning that this
personal approach this
personal statement i show you
what i i'm able to listen or how i listen
this we have to i think
we have to focus on because
we can't we can't go in a competition
with the huge archives it
doesn't make sense we need some
archive as you mentioned in the morning
york that's far too less we
need more but we don't need
it it would be nice but we call it's not
i think it's not in our
possibilities and not so
it's not the focus to have a huge archive
the focus is to understand peripheries
and maybe i have an idea or a picture or
an image for this and
somehow we took sound we took it
and i was outside with my microphone and
i didn't ask anybody if i
can take it i just took it
and the same with the photograph i i took
a photograph and for me
it would also be a question
um to whom give i back this sound and
this photograph to whom i
want to show it and for me
this taking and give it back would be
also a pair and so maybe if we have an
archive then we could
also think about much work i know how to
open it up or how to
change and archives in terms of
that they are going to be distributors
also somehow it's just in thinking of
giving and taking and
i have i had so many gifts of sounds and
images this morning so um
to pass it on to someone else
and that's a good question and to think
about it i mean it sounds
like a very pragmatic next step
and i think also susan and others
indicated that that we just
find a way to make pairs or trios
something like that and that's these then
revisit each other's
material and and then come into a
dialogue and have questions to each other
which might lead to
additional recordings additional
documentations this will result in in a
in a thickening of data as the
qualitative researchers
says so it is the same gets more more
thick more more annotated and and but
probably also spreads
and generates sparks ideas in terms of
processing or artistic roots following
artists i think we can't
hinder the ideas from sparking and it
shouldn't be so it's it will happen
anyway they're a creative
bunch so how could you set up this these
pairings how could we do
that i mean we could let chance
reign or an algorithm or by by uh kind of
a tinder interaction or whatever but
pairing up i think just
getting those pairs and starting that
would already propel
everything because in a in a
bio dialogue dialogue um things will get
the different dynamics
already done in the group
work that we had now and individual work
yeah i think we have to
make a call to show to everyone
and what i could offer is i could cut the
videos into the examples so
we have 40 very short videos
which is a little bit and that on one
website webpage that's a
little bit more comfortable
than to go to google drive to go to a
person to search something perhaps we
could also work with
uh not keynotes with schlager or with um
hashtag or tags hashtag etc
um we have to care that it's
it's really as as less work necessary but
that would be a possibility
to that uh the collaborators
do have the possibility to to listen and
then to ask orders oh i'm
interested in what you have done
let's do it something
together that would be a possibility
and we could use the workshop in november
or into an extra workshop earlier for um
for collecting the results and discussing
the results because i
also think that could be a
of great importance for the research
goals because if i if we
talk about collaborating
that doesn't mean that we don't have
different knowledge
different backgrounds etc and i think
often collaborating has a problematic
that researchers do the research concept
and the orders are just poor because they
have no experience in
making research concepts
for example and that would help also that
the collaborators could have we have time
to to think about it in parallel we have
to work on the official
concepts that and work on reviews
work on reviews because because otherwise
we run and run and
don't come to to an end
at the end means deadline application
so personally i like very much the idea of
creating sub-cluster
around team or common feeling or
interest or sound card and then it would
make sense the sound card
is an excuse for a network
that's my favorite viewpoint i think and
also it could be nice
to still have local sales
because for funding sometimes it's easier
you know if you don't if
money goes doesn't go through
border it's typically easier so having
two types of sales like more
international spread
10 bays or interest-based sales and then
more local action group
i also think from a fundraising tactical
point of view it has a
lot of makes a lot of sense
that we focus for the international part
on the educational goals this
collaboration digital
collaboration because there i see
possibilities for international money but
for specific research
issues perhaps it's easier to get local
money in canada and
switzerland in germany or wherever
and so we would have both we have the
international approach and
we have the local approach
but sorry if i'm quite tactical now
that's a part of the
business to find ways to get money
as you know yes i'm also very pragmatic
but if if we see this as also a big
network with mini goals
because my question about goal was not
the critic but if there's mini goals
and with sales with different sub-project
i think at least for my very
individual viewpoint it would
be more easier to link other projects
existing or a resource to that one for
instance with one of the
students i have recruited were working on
sound environment
listening but through mechanical
computation and 3d printed the artificial
ears so if it you know
we're thinking about sound
environment and the transhuman listening
blah blah blah i can you
know more easily relate
i don't know if you see my point but uh
josh as you met was
working uh is working with me on
that project so creating sub-projects and
then in some month or year
as you say if you said if
if like you said there's a bigger event
we can share you know
uh other research stream
other research streams very much related
to the goal of the
periphery kind of uh postcard based
network for my in my view if i had to
write something to get
funding i would play very much
the card of the one-on-one transmission
like as i said there's an example of
accessibility of sound data based based
on gps map or coordinate but
you can find at least three
five ten of these projects so i would
personally make a difference
uh different shades sorry about
based on one-on-one development of
auditory awareness that's
kind of a little bit through
the talking the auditory awareness is
renewed and is a little bit
different also from you know
p.m. marie chaffar in the tuning of the
world they introduced
the idea of ear cleaning or
uh the it's like clairvoyance but for the
listening but it's a little bit too much
i don't know if you remember but there's
a little conservative
spiritual real spiritual
twist in that and the more recent uh term
is more like just
auditory awareness so developing
auditory awareness through the meetings
the postcard that that
for me if i have to write
something to get money here that would be
kind of the the the the
twist sorry for being very
practical also you know that's that i
think that's the situation we do have i
think what is important
in the end of the day is that we have
enough energy to work on
the educational part if we
that and we have a reason for the
educational perhaps you have
missed or we talked about the
lecture series which we could uh offer
all together there for example you
mentioned this project
uh i don't know exactly what you're doing
that's clear that you could
do a lecture and i we have
talked about microphones we could do just
basic lecture microphones it was
mentioned that's main
quote of our project we could do an extra
on that or uh we have at least two
drawing persons in the
space now susan and andrea i see a lot of
for me the path at a
performative aspect of a field
recording and result and the performative
aspect of a drawing and the
result has something together
i'm not a big drawer but i know everyone
is able to draw something
with a meaning and i say everyone
is able to make a filter recording with a
meaning because it's a kind
of a basic articulation for me
okay i'm from after background of sound
and that could be also a
lecture so that we really share
our differences our different aspects and
care about the core
because what's problematic if
we have 10 different projects and we
share nothing in the end
we share it acoustic and
ecology perhaps but we don't have
something together then it gets uh yeah
it's not of interest
and that's a balance we have to search
how could we balance in
this yeah but the balance could
also be the time because um i like this
uh auditory and
awareness and as we had the first
cycles with the greece greek people uh
with the complete
lockdown uh it was really urgent
to do something and um in these moments
everyone uh was able to act
and now we are able to react
and i think um it's it's a good moment to
have this awareness
really um because we have big
changes and big changes will follow and
we will be uh furthermore in
these very special times and
for me it's really a a good way um to
listen differently and
also to to discuss this with
other people because there are a lot of
questions around in the
moment and a lot of uncertainty
and a lot of changes and i think um it is
a good way that we can
share our practice in this time
for me it's really a necessity
again very practical but in canada
there's something like a mid-tax we can
use for international teaching
this is one of the actual ground to pay
for people and that that's
something that could the teaching
could be important to use for funding
also for me for instance i
will probably have to teach sound
next year so it's pretty sure that you
will receive an
invitation somehow from me for
one one thing one of you or all of you
but uh yes there's support for
collaborative international teaching
very very practical
uh let's come back yeah
sorry susan you have some
i know i'm just again for this next um
step over the summer or winter break um
i can think right now of of somebody i
would like to collaborate in
my local group and somebody
one or two or three people i would like
to collaborate just so
far in the wider group um
but i'm wondering how we could set up
something which helps the people who
aren't here right now
to locate who they might just start a
conversation with whether it leads to a
collaboration or not
but just a very simple structure um and
it just already you think
emails and google docs and it
all becomes kind of how to do it how to
do it in a simple way um but because
everybody's not here
uh
yeah and i'm thinking of mind map with
these different selves
of how people could relate
to the themes we're all thinking about um
um but i'm wondering whether you um uh
max or kathryn or andrea
might start something like
um five or whatever the number is kind of
sub categories and that
we might add our names
to these categories and from there kind
of on our own
initiative make contact with um
the other person or persons
that sounds great yes we we could do such
a mapping yes that
would be perfect because
you brought me to the idea i mean i have
a zura here and now brazil but i never
met the swiss as a peripheral group i
always had the mob from
all over the world and so
um yes uh that's perfect just uh to meet
and um to make plans and
uh maps and that others
could join in and then we could start to
discuss how do we connect
um and if i understand well
and if i understand well susan what you
mean is like uh we
could start and putting on
let's say themes or observation which we
would like to pursue yeah
so we i think we already
do this morning i can think of about
three different approaches
four different approaches
that are regularly coming up um from the
performative act to
the things that philippo
bair is talking about to the listening
aspect uh we covered a
lot of um possibilities and
maybe like each group for example
philippo bair and i could check in with
our montreal group to
make sure that everybody has got the
document that everybody has
maybe looked at a possible
partner to collaborate with and just
check that everybody's can access the
material very simply
and then from there it would be up to the
person the people to make
their own um contact we have
the email addresses or those email
addresses could be available on that
document that is how
for example there is no lecture now with
us from new zealand and that
is how they they will get back
they know already who is interested in
going on and it's a group
with whom they are they already
worked with them reading text listening
and that they will go on and
check with them too so that
of course we are uh depending
on i don't know the word there
sorry that was just uh how do you say in
english um maybe yeah
yeah that's a good idea how
is better than hub hub so neoliberal and
more money is is better
let's call it okay yeah sounds
like rule it okay um so yeah because i i
think i could already
contact some of you to say
hey would you like to exchange just
collecting a few sounds and texts
together and if everybody
had their own way of doing that then we
would have um for the next meeting we
could have not just one
person presenting something but two or
three or four people
presenting something that came out of
this very small collaboration
over the summer winter break
i mean our job perhaps uh sorry our job
perhaps like philippe obert
and i would simply be to make
sure that the people in our relay and our
team uh got the information
and then from there people
do what they want with the information
it's also about
maintaining the the conversation and
maintaining the connection yeah one thing
i wonder is if we um i mean
this this um working around
thematic areas that's that's very helpful
i think it's a very good
idea um i wonder i'm personally
still interested also on on the very
personal level that we had
in this first iteration this
is getting to know each other on a very
human level without the the conceptual
framework as a starting point so to say
can we bring those together
what do you think susan um
because a topic area already can can
develop its own drift or or movement
maybe away from me as a
person or yeah from the interpersonal
relationship i i think that's where um
yeah the category should
be really open so the example i was
giving with the listening and the
impossibility to get a
recording of that perception of what the
listening was might be you know a space
to share with someone
so there's not actually a precise method
or way or subject but
simply a connection i mean
based just on this morning i can find
connections with people in this group
that really interests me
um so i guess it's just a pretext to make
to to bring up some words
um after that at the next
step we'll have more precise ways of
opening up questions again to the
material that's created
so right now i don't know if we really
know each other in terms of
you made that sound and those
are your interests where hopefully next
time we can have a
little bit more of that
can i jump in just a quick parenthesis uh
one thing that could be
done to explore that uh
is uh kind of inspired by a focus group
like for instance uh we have
been doing in the past here
research on how people perceive the sound
of a product it was
really a marketing base and
we just jump in with the group play the
sound nobody's talking
and then we collect words
just single words and adjectives or
whatever you want and we use a google
form because we're lazy
and then in real time we see the database
of words and we push
that to see the number of
occurrence and then we reduce at the end
of a two hour freestyle
focus group with some voting also
on the word we reduce this to 10 words
that the group of 40
people accept this is one way to
to scale down the words and themes but it
doesn't important if it's
google form or whatever it's just
a way not by the talking you have some
parallel online tool and you
just drop in words and then
you vote and then you vote and you vote
and you see the convergence
that's one of the things that
has actually been working but it's just
for a large group so maybe
it's not fully appropriate
yeah i perhaps have not have not fully
understand the categories but
what i see is like two levels
or two kind of categories one is a let's
say very pragmatic
keywords like water electricity
household public space whatsoever and the
other is more on us
not metaphorical but on a
perception in a way driven modes the
impossibility of listening for example
a herd and i agree with you phillip this
way of like you
described is i think is great for
things like dyspachmatic water
electricity etc we've been using it for a
concept also yeah but not
just for a ground thing there i have
perhaps not fully understand what for the
meaning of categories
are we on different levels of categories
or different or do we
search something specific
i think it would be interesting that we
also operate because this
is the driving element of
all of us i think is also our own
curiosity and interest in so i i have in
my mind i do have some
words of either it's a material or it's a
topic which in fact i won't say it
obsesses me but it's
here and it doesn't go away and and i
think that's about maybe sharing and and
seeing who can relate
to it because we are so so different that
i am sure there we will
anyway come to a shift in in
what it is and this has to grow a little
bit organically that that
is my impression that we
can we can try to start with this kind of
curiosity that we have maybe
yeah maybe that's i don't know
if that's what you imply but it could be
as simple as make a call
into the round that everyone of
this experience formulates their what
interests them most and
then then some matchmaking will
already take place automatically yeah i
think that's a better idea
yeah wait forward everybody
writes a short have my first and my
second largest question
i have in this project or
hope they can continue okay to bring
credit he made a call
give some time also invite everyone
please watch the videos and
make up your mind what happened
all what all the possibility and then if
you are interested in
working in these pairs send us a
short memo of your interests or put this
memo in a google form or
whatsoever that's not the
the question but the way would call
waiting let's say two
weeks that everyone has the
possibility to listen and then send okay
i want to take part and
i'm interested in x and then
we have a kind of perhaps of organic
finding themselves and have
it i think that's very good
and we would have it also transparent so
we have to see how we set
that up that everybody can see
the information susan that's the way you
liked it yeah i think it's
it's good so i think it's
actually um more precise that way so if
if each like in our group if
everybody just gives a short
paragraph about whether they're focusing
on the listening or how
how they're doing recordings
they're just how just maybe it's how to
invite people to be
descriptive about the process
that they're involved in and that way
it's not necessarily in
the description but also
in the perception in the action in the
performance around
recording listening so that the
to understand that would be a kind of a
method methodical
instruction so to say on in the
processing in the process sorry i'm
getting really tired here
um in the process or a part
of this matchmaking thing i think some
people will choose each
other because of the process
and other people will choose each other
because of method of you know people will
just be attracted to
these different aspects and so it's good
to keep it as free as possible or to
invite people to keep
it as free as possible maybe could have
it in a how and the
what part you know like and
with liberty to to say something to one
or both um because yeah
i think it should not be i mean this this
statements that we
collect for this should
probably not be too elaborate because
this always has a
tendency to be conclusive than
than inspiring or inclusive really rather
open question formulations i just need to
remind on the focus group thing i said
because i think it was not correctly
expressed it's exactly
part of the method of focus group is that
you let people say
everything they want there's no
structured format and it's important that
it is live because you have instant
reaction if everybody
go in this little place i will take my
big bibliography and
write a very nice four lines
very strong and then i've got i'm
convinced but if it's all together like
like we're currently
doing and if some people are responsible
of actually taking notes
you can see the teams or
word or keyword or concept or whatever
you want to emerge but
it's important to not ask
necessarily specific question when you do
focus group i don't think
we should do a focus group
here but because if you say oh write
something about methodology
methodology or something you're
already kind of channeling the things
yeah sorry okay done yeah i think we
don't have to make it
more complicated than it is we make a
call give them time all
of us to listen and then
let's the self-organization will
functions there will be people who say oh
i would like to work
with you that's the statement because i
have seen and others have
arguments theoretical or
a specific issue and they will find
themselves i think we could trust our
collaborators and us
so i don't i think it's not necessary to
explain too much what
the statement will be
it will be a statement and
that helps to find each other
and then what we have to define is the
time space how how
long do we make a midterm
workshop or meeting or do we have a kind
of support that if
someone has problems with
oh with what microphone i could do that
or this that we are
around this but that's things
we could organize by mail i think that's
not so don't need the time
here we are also close to the
end so i would ask
basil azzur rory hi quadria um what do
you think about this does
that make sense for the summer
or winter
have you already planned on a time span
where this first
workshop could be taking place
that is in november and there will be a
short workshop in
october which will be a kind of
repetition of the kickoff workshop
slightly changed but i assume perhaps
november is too late
but that's something we have to discuss
the november workshop
will take place but perhaps
it has an other issue and not this one
because for me there's uh i feel like there's two possibilities
which i would consider to be doing first
would be to individually
collect more sounds and more
examples because for me what we uploaded
until now has just been a
short exercise to see if the
equipment works and if it's if everyone
is able technically to upload those
things and if there's
still questions so i would really like to
to dive into that whole world of science and
to that whole world of sound and to
emerge myself and to
explore because i'm personally
very interested in doing so until the
next workshop and the other possibility
would be to much sooner
already find maybe collaborators or other
people to discuss on
certain subjects and to collect
collectively um or to together work on
something that could be
prepared until that first
or next workshop so it's like for me
those two possibilities
which raises the question
do we already now find someone to
collaborate in smaller groups
or is that only after the work
first workshop that that happens
no i think that is the idea is we're
going to write that call
and and and then maybe just
not stop going to happen maybe right now
except if you have a urge
to really want to work with
someone who is now here present and and
and you can you can do that
but i think the idea is now
that we're going to put down these
thoughts make this call and
communicate it and then then
happens these these times where you can
work together and then see
like mark said if we have
a meeting point in september or in
october before the workshop in november
this we have to see so
that you want to do more sounds i
understand that completely i mean the
more we look the video also
the more i i i also thought oh i would
like to go on with this idea
so of course you can produce
other other sounds for the moment i would
even say i would even say
we including the call there
it's just as a recall because we said
that already that everyone is
invited to to expand and and
elaborate their archives i mean that
there's nothing that
speaks against it anyway
what we're also doing is working on a
reader and the listening
folder on the on the google drive for
texts and some some examples
yeah but it's summertime for for them
from that point of view
we also have to make holidays there is
one book i i really can uh as
a basic of all uh i have read
mary sharfer's book uh tuning of the
world the first time some
months ago i have to admit that
i have never read it and in german it's
called the ottoman the
clinger it's a in a very good
translation by savine bridesom she is a
sound designer or some
uh or sound theory person
it's not for free it's about 30 euros
it's all style it's in
the 60s written things are
outdated partly but it's really amazing
they're really uh yeah
it's really was for me uh
mind-blowing partly how he or they found
the way of a cultural history of sound
starting with the odysaurus odyssey of of
home air so you need a
little bit time and 400 pages
but it's really a basic from my point of
view it was mentioned
daniel has mentioned it him
i don't know 20 times well i i chose to
focus only on him as a simple entry point
but in that context maybe this book i
should mention again it's
it's really not so known but
it's uh it's basically um a collection
from from the from
finnish university in tampare
which has the five villages soundscapes
the original research
from moe shafer in in um in a
in a re-edition so to say uh but adds to
that uh contemporary
well 15 years old by now
research uh on acoustic environments in
change so there's this that
can be i've tried to find it
but it seems to be no longer able is it
yeah that was my fear no
i'm sorry it's available
dhl has announced the delivery today for
me you have to do that
order it in finland directly
yeah i ordered it directly from the
website is partly only
finnish but yeah i want things
for the credit card etc is now you could
they it's partly
english and the important part
is in english you can share i'm just
telling it i'm just talking to
it because i go but could you
could you share a pdf of part of the book
maybe well i sent a pdf but
i'm not sure if it is that
book because there's not a cover wait a
moment i it's 58 page so i
don't think it's but it's
five soundscape analysis and maybe just
sorry uh just for everyone
to know we have on the drive
which is publicly accessed there is a
folder called materials and
there it is good uh we have
a document please put in the in the
document reference or links
or if we have pdfs that we
can share that's a very good idea this is
for example uh the drive
which you all have access
because it's public for us i already just
put some books in there
okay it's 2 p.m and one minute
we are one minute over the time sorry
because we will meet again now
we'll meet again partly in an
hour uh for listening and watching all
the examples the second
time today and to discuss that
from this meeting we will deliver a
protocol that's the
reason why i do the recording
and we will also that's more for the
research for the funding we
will also write the kind of a
first draft for reviewing and discussing
with all partners and if
all partners means also all
collaborators that mean if you are
interested as student or or
whatsoever in taking part in the
process of this research application you
are for sure invited to do
that it's not a lot of fun
because a lot a lot is is boring things
and tactical things but
it's a core business to get
money uh and to get the money for that
what we want to do in the
end because you have to write
reports and you can't do something
totally different from
what we are calling for that's
from my side i would like to thank you
for all your energy i know i speak often
a little bit too much
sorry for that um and it's a it's a
project about listening we learned that
just joking okay that brings me to idea
the project is called
periphery is a monologous
no no it was not about no not at all do
you have anything to
add for the for today
as a final round
only i put the links to the books online
there is an academia
pdf barely legal i don't know but um you
can check it out i'm not an academia
uh but the links are there and click at
your own risk the academia
link is here yeah and we will
be prepared this paper uh for with the um
yeah with the reasons why
and how and who and uh send
it around if that is okay and we send it
before uh to the different
groups so uh that you can make
changes but uh we stay
in contact anyway yep
okay i go with the simon fraser
university there's some hidden database
of pdf from all the crew from
simon fraser i will put that in the back
but you have all the very
old papers difficult to find
things like that sorry it was very cool
again thank you thank you
let's let's use the google
doc to share share links in stool places
thanks thanks have a nice
evening night and see you later
for those who come again in a small
moment and what time is it the next one
again it's uh one hour
uh one in one hour thank you so much bye sorry who is the host
in i'm the host yeah